Course details:
- Signals and Systems ( हिंदी में) – By Prof. Hitesh Shrimali, Dr. Kushal K. Shah | IIT Mandi, IISER Bhopal
- Introduction to Machine Learning (Tamil) – Prof. Arun Rajkumar, IIT Madras
For more details, please visit: https://nptel.ac.in/course.html
Transcript of the Interview with the faculty members offering the courses is given below.
Where did it all start? What motivated you to start a technical course in vernacular languages?
Dr. Kushal: I have been teaching since 2010, first in JNU and later in IIT Delhi and IISER Bhopal. The students of these prestigious institutes have cleared JEE and other competitive exams. They are smart enough to get into the top institutes but I have also noticed that students had been facing a lot of learning issues in the initial years. Even though some of the students were distracted because of various reasons, there were students who were genuine and dedicated to their studies and not distracted. These students were also facing troubles in their studies. The major problem that I found was the language barrier. Knowing to read and write is one thing and understanding the language as a medium of communication is a different thing; which requires a lot more familiarity with the language. Another interesting thing I have noticed is that for the students who have problems with reading and writing in English, listening and understanding professors in a live classroom setting would cause challenges. Surprisingly, what I discovered is that listening and thinking in English could be a challenge even for those who have some amount of familiarity with the language. During some of my classes, the moment I started speaking in Hindi, I could find a light on their face, saying, Oh ! This is so simple. Even after spending 1 hour in English medium, the students would say that they didn’t understand anything. And in Hindi, within half an hour, they would understand the concepts fully. I noticed the same pattern at JNU, IIT Delhi as well as at IISER Bhopal. Students who are smart and brilliant, not distracted by any other outside activities, were facing the same challenges, and not being able to study or understand any concept in the class. Around that time Ms Bharathi and Prof. Andrew Thangaraj visited IISER Bhopal to discuss NPTEL courses. I gave suggestions about starting courses in non-English languages. They were very happy about it and that was the beginning.
Dr. Arun: My journey is also quite similar to Dr. Kushal’s beginning. I joined IIT Madras in 2019. I was giving a talk in one of the local colleges on Introduction to Machine Learning. I wanted the students to be active and interactive but it took a lot of time for the students to respond, and even when the response came, it was in Tamil. The students learned in English medium but the response came in Tamil medium. Then I decided to interact with them in Tamil medium; the session became more interactive and students responded well. So, I thought there is a real need for courses in Tamil medium; which would be benefited by many people if we do it on a proper platform. Then I also reached out to Prof. Andrew Thangaraj and Ms Bharathi and they were very happy to have a course in Tamil medium.
Both of these courses, Signals and Systems and Introduction to Machine Learning are, as the course description says, introductory courses. What are the challenges that you are facing while running this course? Can the students expect an advanced course in the same way? Taught in Tamil / hindi?
Dr. Kushal: It is always possible to offer advanced courses in technical subjects. I was part of many academic activities in IISER Bhopal, and interacted with a lot of students. It is my understanding that major problems that the students are facing are in the first two years of their studies. In the academic atmosphere in IIT’s and IISER’s; students who are reaching their 3rd year or 4th year, they develop English skills and are able to understand and respond better. It might not be the same for other students studying in other colleges across the country. I am talking from my experience here. It is very important to improve the English Language skills as communication is critical even when looking for jobs. In my opinion, although it is possible to offer advanced level courses in non-English languages, the real need is in the basic courses. First year and second year in particular. That is where they are facing the biggest challenges.
Dr. Arun: I agree with Dr. Kushal on this, adding to that, I would like to say that there is some kind of a psychological barrier. Once you break that barrier, they would understand that it is not the content/subject but the language/medium of communication that is the problem. That is the barrier in understanding the concepts. They have to understand that the subject they are learning is not inaccessible for anyone. Everyone can learn the subject.
English is a global language and we need it; we cannot avoid it. Even in our courses, we are using English for the technical terms, so that once they finish this course, they would be able to go forward and pursue any level of advanced courses. We decided to do it in this way. I think these courses are meant to break that barrier, so that students can move forward. Students have to realize that it is possible to learn, and then they would see this situation in a different way, identifying the real problem and working toward the real problem. After that students might actually learn the advanced courses in English itself. As this is the first time we are doing it, if we get a good response from students and there is a need for advanced level of courses, we would really think about advanced courses.
Dr. Kushal: The point made by Dr. Arun is very important; I would like to emphasize the problem of the psychological barrier that we have here. Even students who are somewhat good at English may have this fear of learning in a non-native language. A complex topic, or technical subject in English, is difficult. They fear that they won’t be able to do well.
The drastic change that every student goes through from their plus two to a college level is hard enough. So, these barriers will be there. There is a big difference when you are at a college level. Language plays a very important role in this scenario where students should feel comfortable while pursuing their studies.
These courses are taught in Hindi and Tamil but the NPTEL Certification Examination is still in English? Why is that?
Dr. Kushal: The course in Signals and Systems is purely mathematical in general. So when we say the questions are in English, it is not like other subjects where they have to comprehend a paragraph to answer questions. The English content is very limited. As Dr. Arun was saying, we don’t run this course to totally ignore the English language and ask students to study only in Tamil or Hindi. We want students to acquire English language skills at some point, since that would be necessary for their future. The idea is to use sufficient Hindi to make them understand the concept and use English for all the technical words.
Dr. Arun: This is not a replacement for the English medium. When we think about our own college days, we never used English in peer group discussions, it was always our mother tongue, or native language. The technical concepts were also discussed in Tamil itself. Conversations always happen in local languages. We are creating a friendly atmosphere through these courses in NPTEL, where students can come and learn comfortably. The hope is that with the discussion forums and other things that NPTEL has, they would evolve better. We want the discussions to happen in vernacular languages. The Teaching Assistants are using local languages.
When I look at the statistics of students who have registered for this course, We have students from 30+ countries enrolled for the course. These are not just students but a mixture of students and working professionals of all ages. Approximately, 30 to 35% students who have enrolled are below 30 years of age, so I could say that they might be working in a foreign country and might be good in their English language communication skills. But even in that case, they would like to learn in their mother tongue. Even the students who have registered for the course, personally reached out to me and conveyed that they joined this course because they wanted to learn the course in this language and try to understand better, maybe they would feel a bit more closer to it.
When you think in your mothertongue, it would be better; I think. The Internet is full of information. There are brilliant people who have created multiple documents, files and everything is out there. But most of them are in English. Someone who is not conversant in English, when they look at it, they would feel like it is not their cup of tea. They might not be understanding the fact that the real problem is the language, not the content which they are trying to learn. This is the barrier we are trying to break.
Regarding the reference materials, are there any reference materials in Hindi or Tamil in these courses respectively? Is there a scarcity of materials?
Dr. Kushal: Not much, I think. But here, we are trying to make the students comfortable in the subject and not to tell them to completely ignore English. We are not trying to replace the English medium of teaching with any other language. We are trying to help students to break the psychological barriers which are affecting their studies.
For those students, who are just out of school, we are trying to make them comfortable in the subject. We want our students to be able to work and adapt as global citizens and should be able to work in any country in any situation, not just in India. We also encourage our students to develop their English skills as well.
Dr. Arun: My teaching assistant and I are trying to come up with a glossary of terms for the students who are purely from the Tamil medium., and my teaching assistant is trying, where we map a bunch of words that are there in Tamil language. Even the numbers are very low as the words are purely in English and there is no exact substitute in any other language, but we are trying to do that.
Why did you choose NPTEL? Especially Covid 19 has seen the birth of a lot of regional language learning applications. Why did you decide to choose nptel platform?
Dr. Kushal: NPTEL has a very wide reach across the country and it is popular and well organized by IIT madras. Even if a student doesn’t have the internet connectivity, NPTEL, upon request, would give the recording videos and other materials in DVDs which can be used for studies. They try to help the local colleges and rural students. NPTEL offers education totally free of cost with a nominal fee for the exam. So, when we produce such a course in NPTEL, it can be reached to the whole student community, not only the privileged ones but also those students who don’t have enough money to pay the fees.
Dr. Arun: NPTEL has local chapters and it has a reach and wide audience. NPTEL has put a lot of effort into translation and transliteration works. This is an addition to the line of work NPTEL is already doing.
What is the significance of such an initiative in a modern world, where multiple translation softwares is already available?
Dr. Kushal: Language is very difficult. If I give a book in English to a student who is already good in English, would he/she be able to totally understand and comprehend? How many of them can do it? I would say, a bare minimum. You need somebody who can explain the concept to you. You need people to explain things in a good way so that you can understand. The video content can help you in a long way with this method of learning. Reading something and understanding something that is very complex,
Dr. Arun: I agree with Dr. Kushal. Translation might not always work, especially in such courses. From the perspective of a learner, if I have to understand something through the subtitles and actually teaching in that language is very different, I would prefer the second one. If there is a possibility of making videos in different languages, I strongly believe that more people will come to take the courses.
What are your expectations and changes that you would expect from students? What is the future?
Dr. Kushal: Students should feel comfortable and be in sync with what they are learning. Students shouldn’t feel that they are not good enough because they cannot understand the courses taught in English. That is the change I would like to see. They shouldn’t get into the artificial or imaginary hole or lack of confidence, where they drain all their energy. I am waiting for that transformation to happen.
For Dr. Arun:- Any other courses other than machine learning?
Dr. Arun: I teach machine learning at IIT Madras and it was easier for me to teach it in NPTEL also. I expect students to come back and ask for more basic courses. When it comes to Machine Learning, that is the need of the hour. In the future, few courses in college level mathematics would add more value. In this course, I assume that the students know some basic knowledge. I would like to go one step below and have a course which is more foundational. If we get positive feedback from students, we would plan further. Probability and Statistics, Linear Algebra are also subjects that would help students in a great way. These are the building blocks of machine learning.
Additional Statements:
Dr. Kushal: I would believe that more courses in regional languages would be a big revolution in the education sector, and i am glad that NPTEL is leading this change
Dr. Arun: I have even received interests from my colleagues who are interested in launching a Machine Learning course in Bengali. So, as a whole, I think shortly more courses would be introduced in different languages.